Facilities Management at Just Eat Takeaway.com

Episode 1

Facilities Management Podcast


About this episode

Marc Fletcher & Steven Downie combine their 35 years of experience in facilities management to talk about their roles as Senior & Regional Facilities Managers at Just Eat Takeaway.com.


Matt (HOST) [00:00:30] Okay guys welcome back to the show. It’s been a while but we are back. My name is Matt and we are here with the Comparesoft Podcast. Today we’ve got two guests. Steven [Downie] is a senior facilities manager and Marc [Fletcher] is a regional facilities manager at justeattakeaway.com. Combined, they have over 35 years of experience in the facilities management space and have worked with well-known companies like Nike, Cushman & Wakefield, Ralph Lauren, Interserve, Selfridges, CBRE, and currently with justeattakeaway.com. They have worked with both facilities, services, companies and owners/operators so it’d be really good to get their take on facilities management. Steven and Marc, welcome to the show. How’s it going?

Steven Downie [00:01:26] Thanks, Matt. Yes, very well. Thank you. Good to be here.

Marc Fletcher [00:01:30] Yes. Thanks very much, Matt.

Matt [00:01:33] Awesome. Well, let’s dive straight into it. And as you know, we have around eight questions on the show. That’s typically the structure and how it goes. And obviously, there’s two of you so it’s double the knowledge so there we go. How do you go about setting a good facilities management culture? Marc, why don’t we start with you?

Marc [00:01:54] Yes, sure. So obviously, you need to be as clear or as clear as possible about what you’re trying to achieve. If you don’t know what you’re trying to achieve, it becomes very difficult. Often, you’ll see people try and muddle their way through it. Facilities is quite a broad subject matter so you need to be clear from the outset. Be transparent with your team. Obviously, team is everything. Make sure you involve them at all stages. So for me, I have an open book with my team, we don’t keep anything back and we work together as one team going in the same direction. Communicate, communicate often. I say that all the time. I don’t think you can over-communicate, especially in the facilities sphere, and obviously, a good FM culture comes with management buy-in, and that’s all the way to the top. So if the management team believes in you as an FM and what you’re trying to do in the business, then that sets a good precedent for a good FM culture.

Matt [00:02:55] Yes. And Steven?

Steven [00:02:56] Yes, definitely. Exactly what Marc said. And also like having clear policies in place. Like having rules and agendas for your colleagues to follow, because there’s nothing more difficult than that, you know, doing it some way and, you know, having to build something from scratch. It’s brilliant when you know what the aim is and things like that. And just looking after your staff and your contractors as well. I’ve always found that when you have an engineer and they work marvellous, you know, praising them, telling them like, oh, well done to that. The amount of times I’ve had engineers help me out of hours when they’re not on shifts, doing you old favours and saving you a fortune in their ideas and things like that. Even like your team meetings, having like an agenda on like ESG, or health and safety, all these like little topics sort of like, tick box exercises for people, but like having them on the agenda gives everyone a clear idea of what they need to do.

Matt [00:04:01] So hiring is a big piece of facilities management culture. Have you seen any differences or common themes in the hiring process across all the big companies that you’ve worked for?

Steven [00:04:15] So I myself have worked for in-house companies. I worked for a company called Heidelberg, where it was very much like there was no huge real estate department or facility team. It was literally just me, and the receptionist and their site handyman and it was like running this show with contractors. It was very much like you would be if — I was very new to FM at the time, and it was very much like, you’d get an insurance company and then they’d be like, Oh, you haven’t done this, you haven’t done that. Let’s get a risk assessment in place and then you’d follow up on the risk assessment and so on. And it was very much like I was making it up as I was going along. And that’s not necessarily a disrespect to the company or anything, it was just that it was an in-house FM role. However, then when you go to a big company like the managing agent or a company like Just Eat, where they’ve got an infrastructure where they’ve got an in-house FM. However, there’s like a legal department, there’s a health and safety department, there’s a real estate department. So like you never — In the house at Heidelberg, I was very much like, on my own, even though I had marvellous colleagues, but it was very much like, we’d have to outsource everything. Whereas when you’re doing it for like, a huge managing agent, or a huge company like Just Eat, you’ve got that backing, and colleagues — for example, if I had a query on something health and safety related on the site, we’ve got someone who specialises in that here. So I can approach them and say, look, I’m doing this, this and this, however, could you just run over this risk assessment I’ve done? Like there’s the back end — or we’re just about to sign something, or this service charge doesn’t look like right, there’s a real estate team we could go to. There’s an infrastructure. But yes, that’s my own personal thoughts. I don’t know what you think, Marc, where you’ve worked over the years.

Marc [00:05:57] I mean because I’ve only worked in-house so I’ve never worked on the vendor side, the CBREs etc. But it’s — the companies I’ve worked for have been in various different stages of FM evolution. So some have been quite immature with it in terms of, you know, they don’t have set policy, set process, they don’t have huge teams, and others have been quite structured. So it’s just different in every business that I’ve been in. And also the culture of the business. If I take two that I’ve worked for are very different. So Nike, very relaxed, very open, very chilled. You wear shorts and T-shirts to work. There’s a different culture to when I worked at Selfridges. It was very institutionalised, very corporate and very strict. So working in those two different companies is completely different. And I’m pleased that I’ve had the opportunity to do that because I’ve seen both sides of the coin. And I think the question was about hiring the correct people. So you need to hire to the brand as well. So obviously, the person that you’d be looking for to hire at Nike or Ralph Lauren would be very different to the person I’d be looking to hire on Selfridges.

Matt [00:07:13] Alright, great. Well, moving on to the next question. What is the best way to plan for facilities management maintenance activities?

Steven [00:07:22] Yes. I think personally whenever I’ve been involved in that instruction of a new site, I would find that from day one, it’s best to get like an asset verification company to literally go around your building. Because a lot of times when you take on a new building, you don’t know what actual things you’ve got there. Even though the solicitors add all the stuff up in a building and they’ll always be like one air handling unit, one floor, or like a condenser somewhere which runs one floor, which no one picks up on, like the part of the sale. You get your rims in. You get them to verify everything, and then you’ve got a lovely asset list. And then you go out to your service providers, whoever it could be. It could be like GWS, then Interserve or all your major ones. And then you get them to basically look at your list, price it up, tell them how they’re going to service, put together a nice list — it’s obviously then whoever wins the tender you go work. Normally you get somebody — obviously, you had to get them straight away to meet all the legal requirements. And then basically, get them out, and then just get them on it and price it up. We always use cap and systems as the managing agent. So e-logbooks are the most common one. They put all that data on that when it needs to be done on a system like e logbook. I’ve used Maximo over the years. And then you sort of see if it comes up if they like you know, every six months, you need your loader inspection done on your list. Every three months, you need your emergency lighting done and so on — Every week, you know, do your flushing and you tap, obviously more complicated stuff as well. And then what you have is — what’s brilliant about those systems is they can upload their service sheets for them so you can literally see if they’re actually doing it — they’ve got closed off their job. What is harder with the in-house companies I find is that they don’t have the software for this. So you’re very much reliant on your service providers to be transparent and honest. Or when it goes wrong, you get their service sheets and you’re like, hang on, did you do that? Was this done? How come the batteries failed on the fire alarm when you test it every week? Did you never look at the error message on the system — just as an example. But it’s very much like you have to have that infrastructure. You have to have that system in place. Otherwise, you have to look through various logbooks, and it goes on and on and on. But yes, that’s my own opinion. Just make sure from day one, you get a good asset verification because that’s your base. Then after that, you can build on it.

Matt [00:08:45] Yes. Well, Marc, anything to add to that?

Marc [00:10:05] Yes, I mean, I agree with Steven. Assuming that you’ve got a CAFM system because I’m a massive fan of CAFM systems. You’ve done your asset verification. You do it to a minimum of SFT 20 etc. I was looking at this question from a slightly different point of view. So assuming all that’s in place, obviously, we interrupt the business. So that’s essentially what we’re doing, right? When we’re carrying out any activity, we will be an inconvenience to the business. We’re there to make sure the business functions and they make money. So comms — and I always say this communication around when we’re doing it, what we’re doing, that’s key. I mean, throughout my career, it’s been noted that you’re calling down the building in a week’s time. Obviously not acceptable to IT departments, meetings might be happening etc. So that needs to be taken into account. And also, again, throughout my career, I’ve worked in very different industries, retail as an example, you’d be carrying out activities in say December, which is generally a quiet period. That is not so the case for retail so you need to be very mindful about the business you’re working in and the type of activity you’re doing and when you’re doing it. So the interruption to the business is as minimal as possible. So, as I said, agree with Steve, need to know what you’re doing, the asset verification is done. You’ve got a CAFM system to plan it. But it’s also that next step to us doing our job by speaking to the business and keeping them informed of what we’re doing and when we’re doing it.

Steven [00:11:31] Definitely, Marc. I think also when we’ve had projects, even here, it’s just like giving the tenants or wait, I’m not a tenant anymore. It’s quite an interesting situation. I was actually part of the managing agent for this site, and then I got to join Marc’s team as an occupier in this building, which we’re currently in. The case of like having regular columns with people. So like, if you’re going to do something, tell everyone when it’s going to happen. You’re like, okay, this weekend, for example, they’re doing work to the water system. And that got put off because we asked in a meeting recently that we didn’t want that to come in on a Monday morning, which was the hottest day in the UK if something’s gone wrong. But it’s just like Marc said, basically planning these things around whatever event or whatever’s going on in the world at the time. So like, yes, don’t work on the AC. There’s nothing wrong with it during the heatwave.

Matt [00:12:26] Good point. Well, so how do you think facilities management teams should go about driving appreciation for maintenance teams across the business, particularly with the top management? And Marc, let’s go back to you for this one.

Marc [00:12:40] Yeah. I think this is one of the areas that we don’t do so well. So celebrating success, people generally don’t like doing that. But in FM, it generally goes unnoticed so unless you’re explaining to top management what you’ve done and how you’ve done it, and are you aware we’ve achieved X, Y, and Z, they’re generally unaware so that helps. And also producing reporting for them. Again, we are a drain on most businesses in terms of what we do. So we generally fly under the radar. So unless you’re producing, reporting dashboards, this is what we’re doing, this is what we’ve done, this is the value add to the business. It’s quite a tough one. So yes, to drive appreciation that way, especially to the top management, that would be one of the ways I would do it. And again, I always say it goes back to communications. We need to be telling the story of what we’re doing, which often we don’t.

Matt [00:13:40] Steven?

Steven [00:13:40] I worked for a building in Westminster. It was the department of Pensions building. And I was obviously an outsourced party in service — I was the building manager for the site. And I remember one time, we had suddenly like leaks and things like that, and so much going on. But the team, it was like old school, like the whole — what was good about that site, we were all based there so all the head people could see how hard we were working that day when everything was going wrong with this building, just naturally, because there was a huge project going on there and things happen. But we did a bit of recognition for them afterwards. They all stayed on extra hours. I think one engineer, they worked a 12-hour shift. And we put on a nice spread for them, and we gave them all vouchers. We gave them what we call an anytime award. And we all got everyone there. So there was the actual customer itself, the client there handing them out. It was just a nice bit of appreciation. But I do think in terms of top management, I think it’s important to sort of look after your staff in terms of putting them on courses. So, I’ve had assistant facility managers who’ve reported to me and I’ve put them on IWFM courses with the support of the business. It’s very easy for bigger businesses to get sort of grants from the government to actually put people on courses which are normally very — like they get a certain allowance every year to put people on courses. But it shows a bit of appreciation. Hang on, we see something in you. We’re going to invest in you. The same with the engineers putting on — there’s a handyman in this building when he was a handyman. But we put them on a course of training to be an electrician. But yes, it’s just like that investment in people, I think that’s sometimes better than actually having a pay rise straightaway. Because long term, you will get a pay rise.

Matt [00:15:29] Sure. Well moving on from that then into the next question. What is the best way to implement an effective facilities management plan? Marc, let’s go back to you.

Marc [00:15:43] Yep. Don’t try and do it on your own, it’s just not possible to do. I used to be ex-military. So coming from a team means everything to me, and it is so difficult to do on your own. So use the team around you. As I said at the beginning, you know, I trust my team and use my team to do everything. Everything’s completely transparent so that really helps. Understand what it is you actually need to deliver. So you will work with the business and various stakeholders in the business to understand what it is we’re actually trying to achieve. And if something isn’t working, don’t be afraid to stop it or go backwards. I’ve often done it. You might come up with a new piece of software, you know, we’ve looked at desk booking systems recently that haven’t been as good as we thought. So rather than continue with something and be quite painful with it, we took the brave decision to stop and explore alternatives. So not ideal, but sometimes that does happen and you need to be brave enough and bold enough to say, look, this isn’t working, we’re going to stop that. And look at — trust the data. So we’re a data-driven department. I say to my team all the time, that without the data, we really don’t know what we’re doing. So the data that comes in, look at it, analyse it, and that should give you the direction that you need to go in, in whatever sphere of facilities management, you’re looking at be it management, maintenance, planning, cleaning, workplace, whatever it is, data tells us where we need to go and what we need to do.

Steven [00:17:15] I think it’s mainly like — the main one which sort of stands out in my head is stakeholders. Getting all your stakeholders onside. Doesn’t matter what a stakeholder is. It could be your cleaner, it could be your receptionist, it could be, the end user, the customer, the MD, your boss, whoever. For example, I’ve been involved in quite a lot of projects over the years. You know when you see a lovely designer, they put the greatest design in place, and then you’ve got at the end of it, you’ve got to put a PPM in place to get your cleaner to clean it. And it’d be like a cream carpet in like the biggest traffic area you could think of. And you’d be like why did they put a cream carpet in? And it would be like the cleaner who would tell you from day one, don’t do that. And you’ve got all these people who have got all these degrees and everything, but it’d be like someone who probably someone wouldn’t let sit on the table who would add the most valuable opinion. But yes, just get all your stakeholders involved in this type of thing. That’s what I say.

Matt [00:18:18] Well, what do you think about software tools? Do you think they’re useful for managing facilities management activities? Steven, let’s stay with you on this one.

Steven [00:18:26] I think some — if we’re talking about CAFM systems, if we’re talking about compliance systems, for example, at Just Eat — I’ve only joined Just Eat at the end of May. Our health and safety guide showed me we use a company called Insurety to do our risk assessments and so on. So for example, there’s a software system they’ve got on their website, which basically after they do the risk assessment, it comes up with a list of actions so you can close it off with pictures. So when someone next of the inspection, they can see the proof that you’ve done it. We also use things like a system called Jarrah. I’ve done that right Marc — for tickets. So like Marc said it’s a brilliant way to measure how busy your building is in terms of tickets. So we’re trying to stop the culture where people just get off to do things without logging tickets. So we can measure; What’s the problem? Why is there a problem? Is there a common theme? Why is there a common theme? What can we do? Do we need to have backup stock in place? Do we need to look at things from a different angle and so on? But yes, I think it’s important to have certain software systems in place just so you can measure and you can keep track of what you’re doing. And also for PPM, you can measure; Are they being done on time? Here’s a record of it. Yes, it’s being done. There we go.

Marc [00:19:58] Yes. So simply put, indispensable. I, like Steve said, a CAFM system, CMMS, whatever you’d like to call it, we cannot work without them, in my opinion. The evolution in technology that’s available to us is changing every day. If you’re looking at even workplace systems, desk-booking now has come to the fore. I know it was around before, but especially in hybrid working, no business works the same as it did pre-pandemic. So using those systems, and there’s many of them is — I’m all about the latest technology, I love to explore it. It’s brilliant because simply put, you cannot do what that system does even with 10 people, 20 people, it’s just not possible to do. And as Steve said, your compliance, your asset registers, it’s all in the system. So it just takes all that headache away from you. And essentially tells you stage gates and checks that need to happen at certain times. So I love them. I talk about them all the time. They’re fantastic.

Matt [00:21:01] And what about spreadsheets for management? Old school?

Marc [00:21:08] Spreadsheets are the predecessor to the CAFM systems, right? Before spreadsheets, we used paper. So it’s just — do I like using spreadsheets? We do at the moment to some degree, but it’s better than the alternative, which was paper. However, moving to CAFM systems is the natural progression. They work but they’re not as good as the software systems we’ve just spoken about. So do I like using them? No. But they’re okay to use. And if you can adopt a system, then I’m all for that. But they do a job.

Steven [00:21:45] Definitely. And the issue with spreadsheets is they’re sort of vulnerable to user error. So someone could mess up a formula, someone could actually data input something in the wrong way. When you’re using a CAFM system, like a system like Meridian or so on, and it says when the next compliance item is due, you know it’s due, because you can’t upload the wrong document because they actually look behind the scenes and see if what you’re uploading is correct. That’s what I found that a lot of the managing agent companies I’ve worked at — it’s very hard to manipulate the system or like put something wrong because it’s forever being audited. Whereas when I’ve worked at the in-house companies, I’ve inherited the old spreadsheets. You sort of look at them and you think, what am I looking at? Because maybe just that one person specifically designed it, and it’s perfect for their vision, but your vision, you’re like, I don’t know this. And this happened to me when I was working at the in-house company I was at before. It’s brilliant for that person but me coming in, not having a bit of a handover. I’m like, Oh, I don’t know what I’m doing. I need to put my own system in, and then you’re making all that work again. But some companies don’t have the luxury of affording these CAFM systems. They are not cheap systems.

Matt [00:22:54] So moving on, then to our round of tips for the listeners. So Steven, let’s stay with you on this one. What are your top three tips for our listeners on effective facilities management?

Steven [00:23:12] I think the main one, obviously, I’ve said to it before, is your stakeholder engagement. If you update everyone, obviously — sometimes there — you might have a job where you can’t overshare because you make your business vulnerable. But if you update your stakeholders, if you say, look, this is what’s wrong, and you’re honest with them that this is what’s wrong, and this is why it’s happened. However, this is what we’re doing going forward, you get everyone on side. This is when the lifts are going to be up and running. And the reason why they failed is because it was an unknown fault. However, we got this part on order — just communication is the main one. I think, also for effective specific intervention is getting your team on side with you, praising them, training them, and investing in them. It’s not always about giving people more money, but it’s about showing that you care, you know, if someone is having a bad day, be that type of manager where you have a chat with them. Take them on board. You might have — I’ve had people before where they’ve done sort of like front house roles, and they’re like, it’s a bit boring here. Give them that development. Say okay, well come away from the desk today, we’re going to do a walk around and I’m going to show you how to do it. And then going forward, you’re going to do the walk around when I walk around with you until you become perfect at it. And the last thing and I think is the most important not only in your in-house team is your contractors. Just because they’re a contractor, it doesn’t mean you can talk to them like rubbish. I’ve watched FMs over the years. And it’s very much like a hierarchy. I’ve seen and I think this is where people failed. They’d talk to the engineer on site or their cleaning team like constantly pointing out the faults. You haven’t done this, you haven’t done that. That is the wrong way. I remember when I first started off, I had a manager, he was brilliant. He thought [i was] too soft on them. And it was like, no, I’m not too soft, because I would ask them to do something, and they would do it. But when he asked them to do something, they’d go, oh, no, it’s not in the contract. We can’t clean your internal windows, that’s periodic. I’d ask them, they’d all do it. But yeah, it’s just, you know, be good to everyone.

Matt [00:25:34] Happy balance. And Marc, what about you? Three tips.

Marc [00:25:38] Steve has just stolen a couple of mine. So I put, work with your team and vendors. Because often you will see — and Steve just said, it’s an us and them, but that’s not the way I work. Your vendors are just important to you as the team. I know that ultimately, you’re paying the vendor and you want to pay them as little as possible, right, that’s good business sense. But it’s that fine balance, you pay them appropriately for the job they’re doing. And in my opinion, you treat them as part of your team. So they’re essentially an extension of the in-house team. So where I work at the moment, they’re all considered jet employees, even though they’re not. That’s really important. Communication. Steve said it; stakeholder engagement. For me, it’s very, very similar. I’ve said it before. And it’s a theme I always use and I said to my team, you cannot over-communicate in facilities. No, because people go, I didn’t know about that. If you did, you’ve had 55 emails on the subject, right? So over-communicate, you can not do it. And this is one I’ve used — Well, the best line manager I’ve ever had. He told me this and I say to everybody; always start with step one. The amount of times you see people trying to do something, and they’re at step three or four and it goes horribly wrong because they don’t start with the basics. It’s the old adage, run before you can walk. Don’t do that. Start to walk first. Start at step one, put the plan in place, know what it is you want to do, and then methodically go through the steps. Because if you don’t know, you will go wrong.

Matt [00:27:08] So what would be your tips for people starting out in facilities management?

Steven [00:27:17] Ask questions. Generally, the best bit of advice I could ever get. When something goes wrong on your site, walk around with the engineer, to get him to tell you everything. You don’t need — it’s great to have degrees, it’s great to have all these amazing things — good for you if you can get it. I don’t have them. But I learned all this from all my stakeholders. So like all my contractors — like I said, be nice to them. They’ll teach you a lot. They’ll teach you what a fan coil unit is. They’ll tell you how it works, how the chilled water goes in. There’s a battery or a boiler which does the heating side of things to it. They go around and they’ll explain it to you. And if you ask another person to check if what they’re saying — never trust a contractor fully when they give you a huge quote coming through. But yes, just literally follow your engineer. Listen to everyone, listen to your team, if they say there’s a problem. For example, you know, if something’s going wrong on a site all the time, go to the front of [the] house. Find out what’s being reported. Find out what their take is on. Just listen to your team as well. And I think the best way to get into FM is — I don’t know about any of you lot but I never planned to be a Facility Manager. I sort of just accidentally fell in — I didn’t wake up one day thinking, oh, I really want to be a Facility Manager. It’s the sort of job which you accidentally fall into I find. I personally think just to start off as a facility coordinator, get your qualifications like your knee box, and your IWFM. I find that people go on these courses too early and I think you have to do the job, and you have to know what a risk is and then you can build on that and then go into them courses. Get your qualifications, and then you’re laughing. And if you work at a company, just come to a bit of a halt and have a look around and see if you can make the next jump. I think I have been a bit of a risk taker over the years. And the reason how I sort of got to where I am, is from jumping around. Because obviously sometimes when you work at a company, you naturally come to that halt because there’s no way to progress up. And it’s not necessarily meaning that you should leave that company because of that. You might really enjoy your job but if sometimes you jump a little bit, even for less money or something, you can build different experiences and things like that, and then move on. Also, I would say one last thing is [to] be cheeky. I went to an interview for the BWP job, and I went to run job centres in Hounslow, like where I’m from, and then various places. I remember being in an interview and I was at a job, which I quite liked. And I was really cheeky. I said I don’t really want to run job centres but I wouldn’t mind running this big building in Westminster. The man turned around who interviewed me and said, well actually, someone’s just handed in their notice. Do you fancy giving it a go? I thought wow, how’s that happened? That’s just from being cheeky. And yes, the rest was history. And having that on my CV, I think helps get me the job here.

Marc [00:30:39] I’d say enjoy it. Obviously, if you’re new to facilities management. Facilities management is vast, right? It’s so broad. You can speak to 10 facilities managers, and they all do a different part of facilities. It’s just — it’s massive. So enjoy it. Don’t get stressed, I would say don’t get stressed. No two days are the same, things happen. There [are] challenges that happen. I can imagine there’ll be a bunch of facilities managers, last week, very stressed when the chillers went down in some of the buildings, and everyone was boiling hot. So that’s just part and parcel of the job. And yes, as Steve said, listen. So the reason — I suppose it’s like raising children, there is no right way of doing it. It’s just — there is no right way of doing it. Just listen to everybody around you. Listen to other facilities managers or take part in forums. You know, you take bits of advice from somebody, and somebody will say something to you one day and go, I do this and you’ll go, never even knew that. And then you can take that piece of advice or piece of information on board and then try and implement that in your own business or whatever facilities management plan you’re trying to do. So, yes, listen, enjoy it. Have fun, it’s broad. No two days are the same.

Matt [00:31:53] So wrapping up then, staying with you Marc, what’s your favourite saying or quote on FM? I think you might have already said this.

Marc [00:32:01] No I’ll say something else. So people often say, that’s the facilities team’s job, right? When nobody knows what to do, it’s normally the facilities team’s job or someone in FM will take care of that. So that’s a famous quote that people say. Or I often say to people, if my phone doesn’t go, I’m having a good day, right? No one ever says thank you. Although all joking aside, they do often but not as often as we would like. But when the phone goes, and it’s the managing director or one of the senior leadership team, they’re not ringing to say, hey, Marc, how’s your day going? It’s normally, why is this gone wrong? Why have I got a building that’s closed? Why have I got a flood happening? So yes, there are two things I often say to people.

Matt [00:32:47] Steven, what about you?

Steven: [00:32:46] I don’t know if it’s my favourite, saying, but it’s the one that I always hear the most by everyone who I’ve ever worked with. Is this one, it goes, it’s a small industry. It literally is. You ended up working with the same engineers, again. You end up working with the same colleagues. I’ll give you an example. There’s a lady who I was just talking to in the office this last week, who’s on Marc’s team as well. And she works — she actually works with my assistant FM at another company. And it’s just like, you know, you have engineers coming in, saying, I’ve seen you before. I think it just really — I was just talking about being nice to stakeholders. Always have a great relationship with people because you end up working with everyone again. And yes, that’s my quote. Well, someone else’s quote.

Matt [00:33:40] Great. Well, thanks a lot, guys. It’s been fantastic having you on the show. And I am sure that everybody even if they don’t say so, we’ll show you gratitude for keeping those air conditioning systems going at the moment. I don’t know if you’ve had any comments on that. But I’m sure they’re grateful for you. Wrapping it up. Thanks. Thanks again to everybody listening in. We appreciate having you here and we’ll see you [at] the next one. Cheers.